Potions kinda suck and I can prove it.
Potions Suck #1
Healing potions kinda suck the fun out of the game for me. I know most OSR games don't allow them to be purchased, which is good, but a lot of games allow you to stockpile them. And when you find them, you almost have to bring them along--they're too useful to leave behind since HP is such a critical resource. They may replace more interesting items in your inventory.
Potions can also feel a little antithetical to dungeoncrawling, too. Since dungeoncrawling is all about resource management, and potions are a (potentially) uncontrolled resource, players may walk into the dungeon with 0 potion or with 10. This isn't necessarily a problem--the group with more potions will just delve deeper, and you could argue that they've earned it.
Dark Souls had the right idea. Estus flasks limit your healing to a fixed amount. And they're easy to refill, ensuring that a failed first attempt doesn't sink your second attempt.
Potions Suck #2
They're also kinda contrary to the fiction. Conan never sucked down a healing potion in the middle of combat, much less as a bonus action. Healing potions don't come from fantasy fiction, they come from video games.
(UPDATE: I'm probably wrong about this, since potions were in '74 OD&D. But I don't feel wrong.)
Potions Suck #3
Adventures are designed around their systems, so systems with lots of access to healing potions tend to require more healing. That's why you see so many unavoidable-unless-you-roll-high traps in 3rd edition dungeons. This feedback loop creates traps and combats that function as a HP tax, and the whole party must figure out how they're going to pay it.
If you play 5th edition right now, you need a healer in your party. Maybe not a singular cleric--maybe you have several characters that all heal their share. You might say "yeah, that's part of the strategy of making an effective party, and it's fun to make an effective party". Sure, but it's still a constraint that can prevent people from running the characters they want. I might want to be a wizard, but if the party needs more healing, you might be able to bully me into a rolling a cleric.
Potions Suck #4
Lots of intra-fight healing also changes the style of combat. If the party could never heal mid-combat:
- Combats would go faster.
- If you game was about combat balance, enemies would deal less damage (to compensate).
- Damage would be impactful, because it can't be undone. (Like every move matters in chess--there's no way to return a captured piece to the board.)
Think about the implications of that. In a lot of systems, as the party levels up, they get access to significantly more magic healing. As a result (1) combats take longer, (2) enemies deal more damage per round, and (3) damage is less impactful, since it's possible to "undo" a round by healing back the damage that was dealt. Laid out like that, it seems like a good argument for less healing in games, not more.
A big part of the reason that we even have healing in games in the first place is just because healers are common in the fiction that we're trying to emulate. Matching the fiction (and your player's expectations) is important, but it's also important to protect the gameplay.
So why not remove potions entirely? Well, there are a few reasons.
Healing is Cool #1
Potions smooth out damage for the character who needs it.
We don't always want combat to be maximally impactful. There's a lot of randomness in D&D, and sometimes you get just unlucky and gets smacked by three goblins in the same round. Potions are a resource that can be spent to undo some of that bad luck.
Healing is Cool #2
Potions smooth out damage for the whole party.
Think about 4 people going into the dungeon with 10 HP each. One way of thinking about it: the party has 40 HP. When it gets low, they need to decide to press on or return to camp.
Except it's not that simple, is it? One guy gets hit. Then he gets hit again in the next combat. Then he's dead. The other 3 guys weren't hit at all. A streak of bad luck sank the delve.
But potions hedge that bet.
If you have 4 people, each with 10 HP, and the party is carrying 3 potions that each heal for 5 HP, then the "party" has 55 HP, and the potions can be consumed by whoever needs them the most.
Through this lens, potions are a form of insurance carried by the whole party. They're a resource that the party shares, that limits how long they can delve into dungeons. (Although obviously the parties that play better will take less damage, delve deeper, and get more treasure.)
Healing is Cool #3
Potions help balance gameplay between different numbers of players.
One character with 10 HP, carrying 3 potions (5 HP each) = 25 HP for the party. That's your risk budget. That's how many rounds of combat you can slog through. That's how many doors you can open. That's how much fun you get to have before you need to return to camp.
Two characters with 10 HP each, sharing 3 potions (5 HP each) = 35 HP. Still higher, but the difference is smaller.
We can't reasonably re-balance the whole dungeon if the number of players change. If the group size drops from 4 to 2, you probably can't delve as deep as you used to, but your delves aren't half as short.
If you wanted to remove magical healing from the game entirely, you could. But with everything else being the same, you'd have to increase everyone's HP to keep the new game comparable to (and roughly compatible with) the old.
Healing is Cool #4
Comebacks are dramatic and satisfying. It also feels more desperate, when you watch your HP dwindle, then bouy back up after you quaff some red juice. You can watch your potions dwindle, too.
So how do we keep the good stuff while dropping the bad stuff? I have a few ideas.
Estus Flasks
In Dark Souls, you lose all of your HP and die. This can happen because either (a) you were fighting an enemy and got killed before you could drink your estus flasks (health potions), or (b) you were exploring and ran out of estus flasks overall, because estus flasks are limited. Whenever you get a long rest, you recover all of your estus flasks, and that number is limited. You don't recover your estus flasks until you take another long rest.
And the more I think about it, the more I like it. Healing should be a very finite resource that is easily replenished by a long rest. It's probably the factor that limits the player the most on their delves.
Estus flasks fit this description, but in the traditional tabletop milieu, some sort of magical healing is probably closer to most people's expectations.
Shrines, Altars, and Temples
Another "problem" in need of fixing is how the game is we handle we handle shrines and altars. D&D is bursting with ancient shrines and altars. Oftentimes, they don't do anything. There's no way to interact with the divinity that is supposed to reside there. (Sometimes I put treasure on the altar, with a chance for receiving a divine curse if it is stolen, or a small chance for a blessing if a contribution is made, but these are token gestures.)
Anyway, I think I have a better idea.
The Solution
Anyway, here's what I've come up with. In a nutshell:
Healing potions are rare (or nonexistent). Instead, the party shares a pool of magical healing that replenishes every day.
Since the party already has a source of healing, clerics don't necessarily bring a lot of healing, but they give other benefits. More diverse abilities, perks when healing is used, small improvements to healing, or perhaps they're more similar to holy wizards.
If you're dropped to 0 HP and then recover, you are left with a point of Trauma. Each point of trauma reduces your maximum HP by an equivalent amount. The only way to remove Trauma is by putting that character in time-out, and playing a different character for a session.
Rules
There's no healing potions. (Or at a minimum, they are very rare.)
In the past, I've had players able to recover HP outside of fights by eating lunch. This can be supplemented (or replaced) by prayer.
People tend to use my mechanics as building blocks for their own mechanics and systems, so I'm not going to present a single mechanic for you below.
Instead, I'm just going to give you a bunch of possible rules and variants, and then tell you why you may want to pick one over the other.
Unlimited Lunch
The party can Eat Lunch and regain all of their hit points. This requires 30 uninterrupted minutes. A single ration is consumed, shared by the whole party.
Discussion: Generally speaking, I don't want healing to be a limiting factor when going from fight to fight. I usually enjoy the game more when players are usually able to enter the next fight at full HP. It allows everyone more freedom to contribute (if you have 1 HP, you kinda have to stay in the back) and allows parties to recover from mistakes better.
However, maybe this is undesirable? See below.
Lunch + Fatigue
As above, except that whenever you benefit from Eating Lunch, you also gain X points of Fatigue, where X is your level. Each point of Fatigue reduces your maximum HP by an equal amount.
Fatigue only goes away when you get a good night's sleep.
Discussion: The purpose of fatigue is to place soft limits on how long you can dungeoncrawl for. If your system already has other types of depletion (torches, spells, etc), you probably don't need this mechanic, unless you want to turn the screws tighter.
Faith Points
The party has 3 FP. They can spend 1 FP to pray for someone to recover HP. To pray, you have to touch the person you are praying over. (You can pray for yourself.) The person you are praying over recovers 1d6+X HP, where X is equal to the highest level character in the party.
Discussion: Faith Points are the simplest implementation of this idea. Basically just estus flasks shared by the whole party, with minimal scaling. You can easily elaborate on this idea, and I will.
Faith Dice
Each party has a fixed number of Faith Dice (FD) that they spend for prayer.
The party starts with 0 FD, but the maximum amount of FD increases by 1 each time you make a significant sacrifice at a church, temple, or shrine. For something to count as a meaningful sacrifice, it needs to be something that is painful to lose, e.g. a real sacrifice.
A "significant" sacrifice is relative to the party's situation. A rich party in a city would have to donate a lot of money to the church. A starving party trapped in a dungeon could achieve the same benefit by sacrificing their last ration. High level parties will also require larger sacrifices than lower-level parties. (When in doubt, the DM should default to open rulings, e.g. "I'm not sure that your donkey counts as a significant sacrifice. I'd say it has a 2-in-6 chance of being accepted. Do you still want to sacrifice your donkey?") A gem worth 1000s always counts as a significant sacrifice, as does a sword +1.
FD are spent exactly like MD, but they can only be spent on cure light wounds. You can invest multiple FP in a single spell, e.g. investing 2 FD gives you spell that heals for 2d6+2 HP.
Once you've made four significant sacrifices, your maximum FD is 4. You cannot increase your FD any further. The party may have obtained all 4 FD from the Holy Church of Goodness, or (more likely) a mixture of different types of deities and religions.
No Free Replenishment of Faith Dice
As above, except that FD do not replenish for free at the start of each day. Instead, you must make a small sacrifice at a shrine (of any type) to recover your FD (of all types).
Discussion: This rule moves the game further away from dungeon-as-sport and forces the players to plan more around the location of shrines. Depending on what type of game you want to run, this can be a good thing (random shrines in dungeons become more relevant) or a bad thing (one more chore to do before you're ready for dungeon delving).
Why are the players able to pray at an evil shrine and recover FD to cast good spells? In my mind, it's because the gods/religions are all part of the same pantheon, and the gods prefer piety in mortals. But you may want to limit this in your own campaigns.
Faith Dice + Limitations
As above, except that you can only regain FD by praying at a shrine, temple, or church of a deity that you worship. You don't have to make sacrifices, just participate in an 1 hour ritual.
If you pray at one shrine belonging to a god that you worship, you recover all of your FD.
If you ever disobey the tenets of one of your gods, you lose all of the FD that you gained from that religion.
Discussion: There's an interesting choice to be made here. If you worship more gods, you have more options on where you can pray for healing. But if you get all of your FD from a single location, you'll have fewer restrictions on your behavior.
Faith Dice + Clerics
As above, plus clerics essentially function as a mobile shrine. If you don't have a shrine available, you can perform a 1 hour ritual with a cleric once per day to recover your FD.
Each cleric in your party increases the maximum number of FD by 1, as long as at least one of those FD are from the appropriate religion.
Clerics no longer have access to cure light wounds or its analogues. (However, the party gets more healing overall since the maximum FD is increased.)
Discussion: The idea is to move clerics away from just being healbots. Since everyone can heal, clerics are freed up to do more interesting things. Remove cure light wounds from the cleric spell list and put something more interesting in there.
I realize that this may be the rule that gets the most opposition, but I think it's also the most interesting one.
Faith Dice + Unique Spells
As above, plus if you make a significant sacrifice at a shrine or temple, write down the shrine's spell list. (There are typically ~3 spells on it.)
FD can be spent on healing or on one of these spells.
Example: Church of the First Emperor: cure poison, turn undead, protection from evil
However, each of these spells can only be cast once. Once you cast it, draw a line through it. You cannot cast it again unless you make a significant sacrifice at the appropriate shrine. Whenever you gain new spells at a shrine, you lose access to any prior spells you may still have.
Discussion: There's a small-but-interesting decision here. To be most efficient, players will not want to sacrifice at the same temple twice until they've had a chance to use all of the spells gifted by that shrine. Additionally, this can serve as a money sink for high level parties. If you have extra 1000s gems to sacrifice, eventually you'll be making major sacrifices each time you're in town in order to refresh your spell list.
No Lunch
In this formulation, you no longer gain HP when you Eat Lunch. Instead, Praying is used for healing both inside and outside combat.
When you use Prayer to regain HP outside of combat, you recover an additional +1 HP per die.
Discussion: This creates a small-but-interesting decision. It's more effective to heal outside of combat since you'll recover more HP on average, but it may be more urgent to heal in combat for less HP.
I've noticed a thing of tactically using the 'downed' condition in 5e fights, ones without massive damage or insta-death thresholds - no point in giving someone lots of HP, just keep them on their feet at a few HP so that the next hit knocks them down but all the rest of the damage is 'wasted' - soaking a big hit with a few HP.
ReplyDeleteDepending on your system, something like smelling salts, adrenaline shots or the like could be like that - potion-like but they only function when you are below a certain threshold and/or administered by someone else to a downed person.
Personally I hate stuff like that, because it feels so video gamey and immersion breaking for me. I play TTRPGs to get the "oh that makes sense, yeah try that!" feeling, not to feel like I'm playing a video game "by hand" and looking for the most broken/easy to exploit interactions.
DeleteCharacters going down to 0 hp en getting back up with no consequences always felt wrong. And I noticed as well that players were using it as a tactic rather then something to be avoided. So I implemented a injury system, everytime a PC get below 0 hp they get 1 injury point. If they get back up they have to roll on a corresponding table to see what kind of injury they get. The amount of injury points a PC has dictates on which table they have to roll with increasing severity of injury when the injury points go up. Eg. 1 injury point table contains a sprained wrist/ankle vs 4 injury points contains severed limbs. Every injury has a effect on the functioning of a PC.
DeleteAnd these injuries go in effect immediately after they get back from 0 hp, so they could possibly impose problems during combat. Most injuries can be treated with magic or succesful Medicine checks with increasing difficulty corresponding with the severity of the injury.
Taking a long rest removes some injury points and getting medical attention from a professional, NPC or PC, increases the amount of injury points removed. At 6 injury points characters straight up die. For my group this changed their approach to combat and going below 0 hp drastically and it adds a similar constraints to the length of dungeon delving as fatigue. It also motivate players to use Medicine and save havens as something to actively seek out
I'm surprised to hear you say this. This has never even crossed my radar, where I run a game that riffs on OD&D, all d6s and d20s only, and players have had unlimited access to 150gp healing potions that heal for 1d6+1. And each character has 8 item slots only, plus held weapons and armor. I would posit a 3-part explanation, (1) players have other things they want to save their money for, (2) I've ensured clerics do the same job for free and better, (3) there are lots of other good things players want in their limited inventory slots like 10-foot poles and even ice picks that interact with dungeon design to provide a better value than a healing potion.
ReplyDeletePreamble out of the way, I like the idea of all those shrines acting as dedicated healing zones where the party spends dice to heal up. I was thinking about how in something like Metroid you have the healing stations to get powered back up. Mobile clerics are great. I'm not enticed to change my current campaign, but I could definitely see using rules like this to spice up a future campaign or ruleset. I'd probably want to iterate the interaction between Shrines vs. Clerics, I think I'd want it to be quick in game-time terms either way but probably make it less efficient with the Cleric (or maximally efficient at a Shrine.) Not sure what would work best until playing around with it.
Truthfully, I haven't really had any problems with healing potions, either. But I'm surprised your players haven't brought along a hireling who carries a giant jug of healing juice. What limits your delves? Torches? End of session?
DeleteYou have clerics provide the healing, but do your players feel obligated to bring along a cleric as the primary source of your healing?
Anyway, I don't expect I'll replace many people's home rules with this. I just wanted to start a conversation about party resources/abilities and maybe talk about why/how we do healing in our games.
And yeah, I'll probably have a better idea of what I'm actually proposing after I playtest it for a year.
For the lower level groups, say in the 1 to 6 range, hit points are the primary factor. For the 7 to 12 party it's spell slots. The party pays a lot more attention to how many health potions they have if there are no clerics, and takes different risks, that's for sure. I think they worry about relying on Hirelings who often unexpectedly die in surprise combats.
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ReplyDeleteYour 'Unlimited Lunch' seems pretty similar to the approach I took in https://www.kjd-imc.org/blog/on-hit-points-and-healing/... and from the comments below the post, you can see it worked out quite well for others, also.
ReplyDeleteThat's a good post! I agree with your logic.
DeleteI've been using Lunch = full HP for a few years now and I like it a lot.
I'm still wavering on how much I want HP to be one of the depletables in dungeon-crawling (hence the Lunch+Fatigue rule above).
Have you found any downsides? Are you tracking individual injuries, with poisons healing slower than other types of damage?
I think every system designer needs to figure out how they want to handle (1) intra-combat healing, (2) intra-day healing, and (3) what, if anything, limits the length of their adventuring day. Because those three questions pull a lot of weight when determining what type of game you're playing.
DeleteYour "Trauma" is an elegant springboard for something I've been wanting to do. Essentially, the party has options to spend gold in town to better their character (permanently or temporarily), but sometimes needs to spend their money to deal with the stress of adventuring by drinking or gambling or penance at the temple, or any number of things. Say, 1000 gp to clear 1 point, but diminishing cost for each additional point: 1500 for 2, 1750 for 3 (the numbers are purely illustrative). This would mean it's financially better to wait and pay a bunch down at once, but that leaves less for bonuses to get you through.
ReplyDeleteIt's a rough idea.
I finally played Darkest Dungeon, and managing stress is a fun (not fun) little minigame. I always wonder if that would be useful to import into tabletop.
DeleteThis sounds a lot like D&D 4E healing model.
ReplyDeleteYep. Free healing on the daily. Biggest differences are that (1) it's shared by the party, not owned by a single player, and (2) it's more limited but potentially more impactful (fewer bigger heals).
DeleteAfter years of mocking combat-as-sport, I think I'm turning into someone who seeks dungeoncrawling-as-sport.
The 4e cleric ( and related classes) having spells/ actions that do some effect PLUS an ally can use one of their heals does seem like a useful model in this faith dice system
DeleteNah. One of the goals is to move to a small, shared pool of healing instead of large, private heals. The only thing they still have in common is that they recover daily for free. I also want to deemphasize healing as a cleric thing.
DeleteMechanically, this is nearly identical to 4e healing, but with different flavour text.
DeleteAlso, the Comrade's Succor ritual effectively makes healing surges a whole-party resource. As does having an Artificer in the party.
But even without that, tactically minded players tend to spread the damage around, so for instance the fighter wouldn't always protect the wizard from harm, so that the wizard soaked up his fair share of the damage. Otherwise your workday is limited by the number of healing surges the fighter has.
I mean, if we're quibbling, 4e healing was lifted from Earthdawn. =)
DeleteSure, but is Earthdawn reviled in the OSR, and assumed to have no redeeming features, with nothing to teach anyone?
DeleteI've always assumed that the genasis of the healing potion was the healing ointment D'Artagnan ecieved from his mother.
ReplyDeleteAnother thing is you could give each healing potion a Usage die. Anytime the PC gets into combat make a roll. If it ever gets to 0 the container broke, leaked, etc.
ReplyDeleteIf you have lunchtime healing the potion could actually be lunch with the doubles/triples indicating indigestion, spoiled food, nausea or whatnot. Get a Halfling in the group and their cooking skills will reduce a triple to a double, and a double to a not a problem.
ReplyDeleteI like the idea of shrines, but think a party should get a FD or two for dismantling a shrine to a hostile god and creating a shrine for their own god. Creating a shrine might require sacrificing 4 FD but it ensures a new, closer, FD recovery spot.
ReplyDeleteI'm intrigued by the idea of combining the Faith Points / Dice mechanic with Delta's 'No Clerics'.
ReplyDeleteIn general (outside the context of most of what our esteemed host was talking about), usage die-for-potions is a great idea.
ReplyDeleteI love the idea of the party carting around a priest with them if they don't have a cleric, or allowing the fighter to be ordained while in town so he can give last rites and restore FD
ReplyDeleteI like the idea of shrines
ReplyDeletebmg
I really like a lot of your points in this post. Removing potions entirely has never occurred to me, but given my interest in making clerics meaningful, I will probably try that out at some point. As to your observation that potions are "kinda contrary to the fiction," I agree that they are not very common. That said, having just read Abraham Merritt's The Moon Pool (1919), I can say that healing potions are implied in chapter 24. After passing out, the narrator is given a small vial to drink from: "Its contents were aromatic, unfamiliar but astonishingly effective, for as soon as they passed my lips I felt a surge of strength; consciousness was restored." It's not referred to as a healing potion, but Merritt seems to describe one to me. I will note, however, that this is the only time such a drink is mentioned in the book. I think this underscores a larger point you make that healing potions should be very rare.
ReplyDeleteNow that you provide that description, it makes me realise that the fellowship of the ring had healing potions, in the form of the "Miruvor" or "Cordial of Imladris" which Elrond gave them.
DeleteSaruman also seems to have given his Uruk-hai something of the sort which they use to keep their halfling hostages going in the Two Towers
Those are good examples. But how often do fictional heroes drink healing potions in the middle of combat?
DeleteI think a lot of value can be gained from adding nuance to damage and wounds, rather than adding nuance to healing items. Sure you can stop blood loss and remove cuts and bruises with the special red juice, but it won't put your fingers back on, or your intestines back in your gut. I've been playing more Mothership recently, and I like how the damage is split into "health" (minor damage, easy to replenish with rest) and "wounds" (a specific injury that must be healed in the narrative, usually with medical treatment, and has some drawback).
ReplyDeleteI do a similar thing in my Into the Odd + GLOG inspired homebrew where HP is a fairly easy to replenish resource, but overflow damage takes points off a relevant stat (usually strength/body for physical damage), and if your body stat goes to zero you're dead. That has the nice upside of making the PC "feel" wounded since they're now worse at saves with that stat, and makes the party highly value stuff that can replenish stat points, while not making them so conservative they don't take interesting risks. They know they can get HP back easily just by eating lunch or whatever, but they don't want to get *seriously* hurt.