tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4754170279177021419.post5388605206620426467..comments2024-03-25T19:47:36.154-07:00Comments on Goblin Punch: Popcorn Leveling and Big Fucking TreasureArnold Khttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12603155377769597516noreply@blogger.comBlogger33125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4754170279177021419.post-27934025635096478352020-04-30T11:44:52.312-07:002020-04-30T11:44:52.312-07:00Perhaps.
I suppose it occurs to me because it fal...Perhaps. <br />I suppose it occurs to me because it falls within what I consider "minimal tracking" already, as I habitually jot down (extremely short-hand notes of) events as they occur so I can later remember what happened and plan further sessions. I can see how that might seem a burden, or somehow "extra", if it's not someone's habit already.<br />Alternatively, have the players track it and being it up at the end. If they don't remember or bring it up then they don't get the bonus--simple!endonauthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03522081802809449081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4754170279177021419.post-10064124179055091722020-04-28T07:25:38.294-07:002020-04-28T07:25:38.294-07:00Yea, I was confused by that bit, too.Yea, I was confused by that bit, too.Solushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08487431263301495020noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4754170279177021419.post-9643819316131723302020-04-28T07:24:57.439-07:002020-04-28T07:24:57.439-07:00That sounds like it conflicts with the stated goal...That sounds like it conflicts with the stated goals in the first paragraph of this blogpost. Too much stuff to keep track of.Solushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08487431263301495020noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4754170279177021419.post-90370306561940975072020-04-14T09:50:00.518-07:002020-04-14T09:50:00.518-07:00"Second, identifying the Treasure in town is ..."Second, identifying the Treasure in town is a good way to keep the focus on the dungeon, rather than the town."<br /><br />There is an assumption behind this that I'm not following. Can you explain how this works, please?trollsmythhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01895349218958093151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4754170279177021419.post-75030930230447905832020-04-09T20:17:51.785-07:002020-04-09T20:17:51.785-07:00I'm in a game design sense in love with simpli...I'm in a game design sense in love with simplifying things down into big crunchier numbers, so the idea of finding a singular thing that gives a real impact but is hard to get sounds awesome. I definitely have to echo the concern that someone could get screwed by bad luck in the chaos, but I could see that working with the right group of people. Definitely a good brain-food post!Fungi Fetishisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15052590076760432168noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4754170279177021419.post-79540682408628354632020-04-09T18:17:04.408-07:002020-04-09T18:17:04.408-07:00The amalgamation of individual player and DM (if t...The amalgamation of individual player and DM (if the DM votes, too) biases is probably a better model of "what the group enjoys" than whatever any given DM arbitrarily chooses.Pity Crithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07888455956188882829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4754170279177021419.post-24512658864967459862020-04-09T16:06:14.496-07:002020-04-09T16:06:14.496-07:00I could have phrased that better.
The best (and mo...I could have phrased that better.<br />The best (and most common) scenario is that people think about the implications of their vote and vote to distribute MVPs "fairly" and evenly, so there's no point in a voting system because it's not actually awarding anything.<br /><br />The second most common scenario is that players don't think about the implications of their vote, and vote based on their personal biases or preferences, leading to scenarios like the one Zedeck describes.<br /><br />Neither scenario is good.Skerpleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06393779599461560431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4754170279177021419.post-35730585535257008332020-04-09T11:18:06.106-07:002020-04-09T11:18:06.106-07:00I like the idea of big shiny treasures, but I thin...I like the idea of big shiny treasures, but I think it creates as many problems as it solves. I like giving out small bits of XP for players making big decisions in line with their character. I also like having smaller objectives in the dungeon. I also like giving out XP for slaying monsters. <br /><br />I would also really hate to watch one player go three or four sessions without ever leveling up while another player got lucky and leveled up twice in a row.<br /><br />I would say you could achieve mostly the same effect of this rule through adventure and dungeon design. The PCs could learn the exorbitant value of a piece of treasure in the dungeon and figure out they're gonna level up if they retrieve it.Bohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18061857481330825448noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4754170279177021419.post-91885838140520215382020-04-09T09:37:39.269-07:002020-04-09T09:37:39.269-07:00I like it.
Also one of those who's a bit dubio...I like it.<br />Also one of those who's a bit dubious about voting for MVP. What if instead (in order to hit the points of recapitulate/award/teach) there were a series of metrics provided beforehand that would provide bonuses? (SEACAT and NGR come to mind as examples of this idea) like:<br />Saved another PC from certain death +1d6 (each time)<br />Disarmed/sprung the most traps +1d6<br />Opened the most doors +1d8<br />Took the most damage +2d8<br />Came up with a creative, non-standard use for a spell or magic item +1d10<br />Talked their way past a potential combat +1d10<br />Came up with a cunning plan +2d4<br />Defeated a powerful monster alone +2d6<br />Had their character die +1d12 (rolled next game, for their next character)<br />...and so on (note these are not necessarily well-thought-out numbers and examples in terms of the RNG involved--just jotted out to convey the idea).<br />It would still allow you to encourage/reward certain styles of game play, while at the same time not asking players to judge each other's play. And I think just having the list of what gets bonuses would to some extent help "teach" new players what is to be expected or required to "succeed" in the game.endonauthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03522081802809449081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4754170279177021419.post-81985525406731047792020-04-09T05:37:16.529-07:002020-04-09T05:37:16.529-07:00I agree with Skerples in "Humans also enjoy b...I agree with Skerples in "Humans also enjoy being fair" but my experiences shows the opposite of what he says. People of my culture (as I'm not from US) tend to distribute the awards with everyone evenly so none is behind but also none is ahead.G. B. Verashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07321019711309446662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4754170279177021419.post-24599444103994323902020-04-09T03:52:31.949-07:002020-04-09T03:52:31.949-07:00All these voting systems have the same issues.
Vot...All these voting systems have the same issues.<br />Voting is a manifestation of bias. What any individual player or GM enjoys might not be what the group enjoys. Who sets the goals? Players have varying levels of investment in the game. Should that be mechanically penalized or rewarded? <br /><br />Humans also enjoy being fair. What if the same player is MVP 3 sessions in a row? 5 sessions? Should votes be adjusted for fairness? Happens a lot in Apoc. World XP assignment. <br /><br />If the vote is at the end of the session, their brain-juice is at its lowest. Will they make the best choice? Will they consider all the necessary factors? At the start of the next session, will they remember all the details?<br /><br />I think I know what makes a game fun and what makes a good player, but if I only had that in my group - and enforced it - I'd have a lot less interesting games. Outside perspectives are needed. <br /><br />This road is littered with the corpses of game designers gone by. No voting. Skerpleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06393779599461560431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4754170279177021419.post-20484142399200175352020-04-08T19:55:35.941-07:002020-04-08T19:55:35.941-07:00I had been thinking that levels would be gained at...I had been thinking that levels would be gained at the rate of 1 per Treasure given to patron, but promotions could be a lot more flexible and allow players to negotiate for their levels. It might conflict with pre-existing systems for gaining noble titles and ascending the church hierarchy, but maybe the "adventurer hierarchy" is a different social concept in the setting. I'll be thinking about it!Tim B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/09430001792622615524noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4754170279177021419.post-52877539897997077352020-04-08T19:37:13.338-07:002020-04-08T19:37:13.338-07:00The downside is that it requires you to track the ...The downside is that it requires you to track the +1s. The upside is that it reduces the chance of being screwed by RNG.Arnold K.https://www.blogger.com/profile/13897811045010958297noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4754170279177021419.post-40990757663097026722020-04-08T19:35:10.883-07:002020-04-08T19:35:10.883-07:00I dare you to go all the way and say that levels a...I dare you to go all the way and say that levels are only gained when your patron gives you promotions. It fits into Level 1 = Veteran, Level 4 = Gladiator title stuff that they had in the older editions.Arnold K.https://www.blogger.com/profile/13897811045010958297noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4754170279177021419.post-13053149333616884582020-04-08T18:52:22.598-07:002020-04-08T18:52:22.598-07:00That would definitely work. Other ideas: they must...That would definitely work. Other ideas: they must bring an Identifier NPC with them. Or there's a class whose abilities include identifying Treasures. Though both those perhaps make it too conditional. Ahimsahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05376285902328215363noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4754170279177021419.post-79098617891728502232020-04-08T17:45:40.341-07:002020-04-08T17:45:40.341-07:00Very tempted to combine this with Skerples's n...Very tempted to combine this with Skerples's noble-patrons-and-taxes system, except that instead of taxes on all the gold pieces you find, your patron demands Treasures. Would explain why every Treasure is worth 100 gp: your patron pays a flat rate (which is way less than the Treasures are worth).<br /><br />This also paints a picture of a world where the nobility are obsessed with filling their vaults with ancient artifacts and send adventurers after them. I would be tempted to write an additional system for domain-level play where the level of your domain is based on how big your vault of Treasures is.Tim B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/09430001792622615524noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4754170279177021419.post-62877117189047912602020-04-08T16:49:49.449-07:002020-04-08T16:49:49.449-07:00What about if the DM just picks the MVP?What about if the DM just picks the MVP?Arnold K.https://www.blogger.com/profile/13897811045010958297noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4754170279177021419.post-79501288823448383112020-04-08T16:46:45.842-07:002020-04-08T16:46:45.842-07:00Man, I can't find it right now, but somebody o...Man, I can't find it right now, but somebody online has a system for AD&D where you roll a d20 after each adventure (or game session, I don't remember) and try to beat a certain number to level up. The number is based on class and level, although if you were to adapt it to a system where classes are more balanced level by level (or if you just don't give a shit) you could work it down to just being based on level. If you roll and don't level up that time, you get a +1 on the next roll. After the first few levels, some of the numbers you're trying to hit can't be reached without several +1s, so you don't end up with someone gaining a level each and every time, or someone who just can't level up because he always rolls a 1. Once you do level up, the +1s all go away and you roll a straight d20 for the next level again.<br /><br />Anyway, that's a pretty good rundown on it. A lot of people don't seem to like the voting mechanism, so a target number seems like the way to go.subhumanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11473278419449181642noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4754170279177021419.post-874197792400181662020-04-08T14:13:51.501-07:002020-04-08T14:13:51.501-07:00For some reason I think this could be especially f...For some reason I think this could be especially fun in a 5e game. other sorts of leveling seem weird there-- I've collected a hoard of copper pieces or stabbed a whole village of kobolds, so I get a whole new superpower?-- but "I stole a single big treasure and now I have a new superpower" seems just goofy enough to work. Not sure if I'd prefer this over a more traditional OSR game where it's mostly just your hit dice and to-hit bonuses that go up... Captain Crowbarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11959402382179885595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4754170279177021419.post-15454683132836744272020-04-08T14:09:21.716-07:002020-04-08T14:09:21.716-07:00"vote for who's the worst" seems lik..."vote for who's the worst" seems like it'd be a drastically different system than "vote for who's the best." still not sure how much I like the EXACT implementation here, but I'm not opposed to "RNG with the MVP given an advantage" as an abstract concept... Captain Crowbarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11959402382179885595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4754170279177021419.post-79735933827731609912020-04-08T13:41:57.023-07:002020-04-08T13:41:57.023-07:00Love the idea. Was just thinking a way of awarding...Love the idea. Was just thinking a way of awarding xp in a setting with no currency and this works great.<br /><br />No voting though.Zinarikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10460490031267059305noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4754170279177021419.post-8736455896984880372020-04-08T11:28:08.571-07:002020-04-08T11:28:08.571-07:00An easy trick for helping with the randomness woul...An easy trick for helping with the randomness would be to give additional dice to PCs who are below the maximum party level. Or subtract a PC's level from their result.Igfighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05012142684026779521noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4754170279177021419.post-39162827302512927882020-04-08T11:25:53.964-07:002020-04-08T11:25:53.964-07:00Voting might not work for every group, but has ver...Voting might not work for every group, but has very much helped in mine. Anonymous voting and invisible XP awards have helped my curtail some antisocial player behavior that circumstances prevent me addressing more directly. The problematic players noticed that they were constantly 2-3 levels behind everybody else and cleaned up their act.Pity Crithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07888455956188882829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4754170279177021419.post-88640332643334325112020-04-08T10:36:51.505-07:002020-04-08T10:36:51.505-07:00I'm heartened by the fact that most people lik...I'm heartened by the fact that most people like the Treasures but dislike the Award Ceremony. I'm not attached to the Award Ceremony idea.Arnold Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12603155377769597516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4754170279177021419.post-71125865565029137742020-04-08T10:31:22.108-07:002020-04-08T10:31:22.108-07:00If not town, then at least when the Treasure is id...If not town, then at least when the Treasure is identified. If that's infeasible, then make each treasure identified as soon as the party gets a hold of it.Arnold Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12603155377769597516noreply@blogger.com